by Anne R. Allen
“Leave your critique group” was my editor’s advice after my first full-length novel, Food of Love, came out with his UK publishing house. He said he didn’t want a bunch of wannabes messing with my work.
He had a point, and I understood what he meant. But the members of my group had become close friends, I didn’t want to give them up. And I thought I’d learned enough that I could discard any bad advice they might come up with. So after my first book tour, I went back to my group. There were a number of new people, and I found their reactions to my work were helpful, and the support of my old friends was invaluable.
Twenty years later, I’m still with that group. They’ve now helped me polish 13 more books before they go off to my publisher. Many people have come and gone, but the core membership remains solid.
It wasn’t until a few months ago that I came to question my decision to stay.
Literary agents Jessica Faust and James McGowan of Bookends Ltd. talked about this on their podcast recently. They listed staying in your critique group and expecting things to stay the same once you’re published is one of the 10 worst lies authors tell themselves.
So should you leave your critique group once you’re published, even though the group offers you important emotional support?
Questions to ask Yourself if Pondering Leaving Your Critique Group
1) Has It Become Group Therapy?
Whether you’re published or not, it’s best to leave your critique group if it’s morphing into group therapy. There are huge dangers with amateurs giving mental health advice. Group psychotherapy only works if a mental health professional is present.
You’re not there to psychoanalyze each other. You’re there to improve and polish your writing.
This is especially a problem with memoir writers. If you’re writing about childhood abuse or a nasty divorce, there will be raw personal stuff on the page that often triggers the critiquer’s inner Dr. Phil.
This is even more a problem if writers are bringing personal journaling to the group. I feel personal journaling belongs in a shrink’s office or a 12-step program, not a critique group. If there’s no attempt at creating narrative or shaping raw confessions or interior musings into a story, poem, or other recognizable writing form, a critique group isn’t the right place to share it.
2) Are All the Members on a Path to Publication?
There is something called a “happy amateur” — a writer who creates with words, but has no need to share them with the general public. My hat is off to them.
Critique groups filled with happy amateurs serve a wonderful purpose. Sharing their work with other members of the group is all these writers need. In fact, many, many successful critique groups and writing clubs are basically amateur clubs that don’t aim at publication.
Writing is a fantastic hobby. And it’s way cheaper than golf. 😊
But if you’re a published book author — indie or trad-pubbed — working with a professional editor, this kind of group is not for you. You are no longer an amateur. Either your writing will slide back into amateur mode, or you’ll offend members with advice on how to change their writing for a publishing audience.
3) Is there a Member Who Resents Your Success?
Envy is a dangerous beast.
A new member asked to join our group last summer. She was a beginner who had never published anything, but initially, her critiques were helpful. Her own writing was mainly personal journaling, but it showed promise, so we asked her to join.
We didn’t realize she was a poster child for the Dunning Kruger effect and a wannabe Queen Bee.
Since I host the group and I’m a dreaded professional author, she came after me — with the cruelty of a schoolyard bully.
She talked to me as if I were a developmentally disabled child, sending emails “correcting” my work. She told me I wasn’t funny and should quit writing. Her comments were as clueless as they were nasty, so I stopped opening her emails and ignored her childish attitude.
Because she was pleasant to other members, I took her abuse as long as I could. But after months of bullying, I asked her politely for a little respect. This affront made her quit the group in an unhinged fit of pique.
But she wasn’t done. She started dropping one-star reviews on my books.
When I spoke to Ruth, she said a professional author has no business in an amateur writing group. She was right. I probably should have followed that long-ago editor’s advice to “leave your critique group.”
But I remained, again — partly because the group meets at my house 🙂 — plus I realized, minus Queen Bee, we weren’t an amateur group. Other members are all published in one way or another. Some may be stuck on the query-go-round, but they think like pros.
However, I don’t wish the Queen Bee experience on anyone. If there’s one in your group, get rid of her or run.
4) Is Your Own Work Stagnating?
It feels comfortable and safe to be a big fish in a small pond, but if you’re stuck in a puddle, you can’t grow.
If you’re getting nothing but fawning praise from the group, you’re not getting the help you need.
Ask your editor if they prefer that your work comes to them unedited, or if they like the polish that comes from running it by a critique group.
You might also look for a beta reader or group of published authors through a professional organization like RWA, SinC or SCWI. Once you’re published in a particular genre, it’s even more important to get feedback from people in that genre.
5) Are You Having Too Much Influence on People in the Group?
My friend Catherine Ryan Hyde had the opposite experience to mine. Her critique group went along as normal after her two first books were published — until the movie of her novel Pay it Forward came out.
Then she realized people in the group were treating her differently. They were hanging on her every word, treating her opinions as if they were gospel.
And she was getting no useful feedback, since people were afraid to criticize a star.
So her advice to me was to leave your critique group if it can no longer conduct normal critiquing.
A Note About “Dark Academia”
One of the biggest issues with our Queen Bee was her conviction that the rules she’d learned in an academic writing workshop were carved in stone.
But there’s a big difference between academic fiction and popular fiction. Academic rules have less to do with storytelling and more to do with self-expression and creating artistic prose. Academic fiction can be dense and murky and requires a lot of work from the reader.
Some literary fiction that springs from academia now has its own genre “Dark Academia.” They even have their own jewelry, which I have to admit is kind of cool.
One of the most famous Dark Academia books of the last few years was Bunny, by Mona Awad. It confirms everything you’ve ever feared about writing workshops. In the book, snarky critique groups morph into gore-fests where “Kill your Darlings” is taken literally.
The reader has to work very hard to figure out what is supposed to be real and what is the MC’s hallucinations. I’m still not sure.
Since I wasn’t prepared for a horror novel — not my favorite genre — I had to pat myself on the back for finishing it. And also for never going into one of those programs.
If you’re a writer who is published and selling books, you want to give the denizens of Dark Academia a wide berth. Avoid critique groups where they hold sway. Many have been taught that cruelty = honesty and “bestseller” is a bad word.
And avoid any group with members whose confidence outweighs their competence.
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For more on the pros and cons of critique groups, see my posts 6 Ways a Critique Group Can Help Your Writing and 6 Ways it Can Hurt, 10 Kinds of Critique Groups That Can Drive You Bonkers and Critiquing 101.
by Anne R. Allen (@annerallen) May 21, 2023
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What about you, scriveners? If you’re a published book author, did you leave your critique group after you were published? If you’re not published and you’re in a critique group, do you think published authors should stay out?
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I haven’t had luck yet publishing novels, but I’ve had a good heap of short stories find good places to land, & I’m still in my critique groups — I find the groups’ input invaluable.
CS–I think it depends so much on the group, and whether they’re your “peers” or behind you on the publishing ladder.
As always, this is another excellent and validating read. I’ve had my own issues with Queen Bees and followers of dark academia, and those weaponized reviews. I no longer participate in writing groups, and instead enjoy taking classes/workshops from a slew of my favorite experts. Thank you for your insightful wisdoms!!
Bobbi–A few run-ins with malevolent critiquers and nasty wannabes like our Queen Bee would definitely put me off writing groups. A solution is a class or workshop with a strong, knowledgeable teacher or leader.
Anne—I stand by my advice that a professional author has no business in an amateur critique group. The editor’s comments/queries can be helpful — or not — and the au can agree — or not. Ideally, the ed-au relationship should be a collaboration in which both have the same goal: making the book as good as possible.
Ruth–A professional editor can be so much more helpful than an amateur–exactly because the goal is a better book, not showing off or being snarky. I think an amateur can be useful to let us know how a reader might perceive the story, but their advice on big issues mostly needs to be ignored, whether from a critique group or a beta reader. I do understand editors and agents who don’t want their clients taking bad advice from non-professionals. Your advice helped me deal with the Queen Bee episode, which was pretty upsetting.
What a gripping story! I have zero idea how I would handle a Queen Bee, but I’m sure it wouldn’t have lasted as long as you did, nor would it have been nearly as pretty! And that Dark Academia book… sounds to me like you should sue. It’s just the R-version of Ghostwriters in the Sky!
Will–Haha! It’s true that Ghostwriters deals with a lot of the issues in Bunny–in a totally different way. Bunny doesn’t have a lot of laughs. 🙂
I did put up with the Queen Bee way too long. I tried to communicate with her, but it took me a while to realize she never listened to one word I said. I think now that she hadn’t listened to anybody since she was in about 5th grade. She needed to believe she was the world’s greatest expert on everything, and if you know everything, there’s no point in listening to other people.
Anne, Thanks for such a useful post, one which I have never seen addressed in this way before. Ruth, thanks for the comment above. Yes, everyone who has input to your book should be committed to making it the best it can be. Takes some rethinking of bringing other people who don’t have a stake in it, into the process.
Melodie–There are control freaks and bullies in every profession, and some editors certainly are both. They don’t want to make the book better. They want to make it theirs.
The Queen Bee. Wow, just wow, Anne, Right, Ruth?
I had one brush with a writer group when I first started down this path. I went to an in-person meeting of the local scribes and thought I could learn what this is all about from those who’d gone before. Well, I thought I’d walked into a meeting of Schizophrenics Anonymous. Never went back. Enjoy your day, ladies!
Garry–Oh, how awful. Unfortunately, a lot of people with mental health issues want to be writers. I certainly have been in groups that were more group therapy than writing workshops. And the Queen Bee sure needed some therapy. She was also a fabulist who lived in a fantasy bubble of her own fabrication. Great imagination. And writers need imagination, but it helps to be able to tell fact from fiction. 🙂
I can certainly see how your own work could stagnate, especially if the group doesn’t change much or no one else gets published.
I’ve never had a critique group although I’ve had critique partners. Those people have changed over the years but they’ve always been published authors.
Alex–Groups can stagnate for a lot of reasons, but lack of turnover is probably the biggest. And if you’re stuck in a group of happy amateurs, it might feel cozy and welcoming, but it could slow down your own work. Finding a great critique partner is a fantastic way to get your work polished. Congrats on finding good ones.
Excellent insights, Anne! As you say, different groups have different purposes. What was helpful for me 30 years ago would do no good today.
To me, the most helpful aspect of CGs was accountability. You get in the habit of turning in work regularly.
Now I find beta readers yield the most useful feedback. They read the whole ms rather than piecemeal in a CG.
I’ve been incredibly lucky to only run across one Queen Bee. She thought her sh*t didn’t stink b/c she had an agent. I put up with her insults for a couple of meetings then walked out. I don’t think her masterpiece was ever published. Too bad others didn’t recognize her magnificence.
Debbie–I agree completely. That accountability factor is part of what keeps me going back to my group. But beta readers can give the best feedback because they look at the whole picture, not just a chapter at a time. Your Queen Bee sounds a lot like ours. Extreme narcissism makes people so unpleasant.
Anne, I love the group with experienced writers. I am a novice but have great respect for experienced authors and writers. Getting good input is invaluable. And finding new friends adds to the experience. The meetings fly by. As for the nasty person. You did the right thing. Life is too short to endure that type of person.
Dianna–Yes. A novice in a professional group can learn a lot–as long as they want to. 🙂 But some people, like the Queen Bee, aren’t there to learn. They only want to show off and demand praise.
How interesting. It never occurred to me to think of leaving my crit group once I was published. Mind you, most of the core group are also published, and we all have the same aim of producing good, publishable work.
When someone applies to join, we vet a piece of their writing first, and have to all agree to admit them. They are required to have the same aims, even though newbies are often not published at the time they join. Thereafter they either get published or leave, the latter usually happening when they realise they aren’t really up for the hard work of getting published.
I’ve been with the same core group now for 30 years, and still value their input. We used to meet face-to-face, but now do meetings on Zoom, which has allowed some members who moved away to rejoin. I have no intention of leaving, even after publishing 8 books with another on the way shortly.
Debby–It sounds as if you found a great group. When you’re all on the same path and have the same goals, then you can all grow together. That’s what my group has been like most of the time. I guess it’s why I’m still with them. But we should do a better job of vetting new members the way you do.
Whew! Honestly, I’m not sure I would give it up if my group had hit your list. I feel and odd need to defend my group. LOL.
I consider my critique group, which is going on 10 years, my “alpha” readers and have beta readers and then hire editors after that. In my group, we have a PHD in lit, an award-winning short story author, and half our members have lit degrees, and all members are now published authors, some novels, some short stories. I read your post with trepidation, but was relieved to find, my group hits none of these pitfalls.
When we began, we only had one author who had indie-published a book, and a few authors with short story or poetry credits (we don’t do poetry, nonfiction unless it’s creative/narrative, children’s books, or plays), but now we have all published multiple books.
Does this advice presume, the author is going the traditional publishing route? I think it’s even MORE important for the new and beginner writers or those going the indie route to find a productive critique group.
To avoid some of the pitfalls you list, we also have a pretty strict set of ground rules that are adhered to, so there is no bullying and comments are productive.
Thank you for giving me pause, and making me do a “writing health check-up.”
Swiveltam–I’m a big fan of critique groups as a way to learn the basics of writing and the publishing business. I’m still with my group after 20 years, because it works for me (as long as we don’t invite any more wackadoodle members like the Queen Bee.) As I said, whether you’re trad-pubbed or indie, if you’re using a professional editor and treating your writing as a profession, you’re a “published author.” That’s when you want to get your critiques from people who are professional in their comments and are either published or aiming to publish. Beta readers don’t have to be writers. Sometimes we just want a reader’s perspective. But critiquers, in my opinion, need to be more professional.
Anne…another insightful blog. I have been in a group for about 8-9 years.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T is our code; Supportive is intentional; friendship is our bond.
We started with 8, I believe, but it wasn’t long before a couple left knowing it wasn’t a good fit. Our only male decided to focus on his business helping author’s publish and we’re all still close. We were all published in a variety of mediums, with WIP fiction we would read about 1200 words at group looking for feedback. We often wrote more than than but have a word count helped everyone get feedback during a session every other week. Covid interrupted the flow but we are still meeting monthly now.
Our male did stay with us through our first retreat and we all loved the process we had strategically set up. We have traveled annually (except Covid) for going on six years to a Vacation Rental about an hour away so we don’t waste too much time driving. We stay 4-5 days and write all day, enjoy a meal out and/or cook in and read our works in the evening. Sometimes we try and find a joy ride in the area to relax.
When our latest member published we provided the nosh at the book signing…all according to a plan and agreed theme to enhance the book signing experience for her readers. It was our way of supporting our published author for her first book in the series we all loved and encouraged.
At one point we decided our group had enough to say/write so we pitched our services to a local free press and now write a column focused on experiences/special interests found in our area – each of us chose distinct content and maintain our own style.
Live, work, play…and purposefully focus on our writing and publishing goals has kept us together and productive. Respect has kept us thoughtful and supportive of each other. My sisters make me a better writer…and yet, each of us would and/or already have contracted with a professional editor before publishing. Good luck all.
Judy–I agree that respect is the key to a good writing group–well, any group as a matter of fact. I’ve always treated beginners with the same respect I treat established writers, because we were all beginners once. The thing that triggered the temper tantrum of the Queen Bee was my request that she treat me with the same respect I give her. Not okay with her. She knew she was better than everybody else and her word was law. Narcissism is dangerous in any context, but this wackadoodle really wrecked our group for a while.